alex: new AWW file ?s

Discussion in 'Chiptuning Power discussion' started by Cypher2k, Jul 15, 2001.

  1. Cypher2k

    Cypher2k Hero Member

    Hey just put on the new AWW file and my surging issue has been solved. But got a few questions:
    Is it a more conservative chip? I may have just gotten used to it but it seems slower.
    What exactly was changed? I would love to read the technical explanation for what was going on with the old program.
     
  2. free radical

    free radical New Member

    Rene Berube advised me as follows on a similar query:
    "The AWW is in the 2001 models and has variable cam timing, the turbo is not necessarily larger, but the compressor wheel is different, it definitely puts out more boost. The program code on the AWW, given the turbo VW is using produces a tremendous surge of boost initially, the tuned file tries to pull this back, (without throwing a boost related code) it's a fine line, too much slope and power will not be developed before 4000 RPM, too little and surging results from overshoot by the turbo.
    Regards
    Stuart
     
  3. free radical

    free radical New Member

    I would suggest that anyone who has the fix and is able to re-dyno without any additional mods or by reversing any such mods, do so as a comparative and post their results.
    If there is a drop in performance sufficiently significant equate with "too much slope and power will not be developed before 4000 RPM" then surely that would be felt in the seat of the pants, and be confirmed by the re-dyno.
    Hopefully the Upsolute fix will bring everyone equally close to good side of that "fine line", without a significant loss of power. The more comparatives we have, the clearer the situation will become.
    I am impressed with the openness with which the Upsolute techies have discussed trouble-shooting, so I expect they will facilitate an informal data-gathering exercise on this forum and hopefully also conduct and post the results of a more formal one based on their tuned file fixes undertaken in their facilities, though this will require a commitment to re-dyno testing at least some unmodified clients.
    Cypher, you or anyone able to re-dynotest and post, or at least post on seat of the pants experiences after a tuned file fix, which latter will not require restriction to non-modifieds?
    Regards
    Stuart
     
  4. René

    René Moderator

    You can, it depends on whether you are surging or not, the new file should be very close to the same power output, just smoother, this may "feel" less powerful but is not.
    ------------------
    Director North American Operations
     
  5. Blackwolf

    Blackwolf Active Member

    I'll go with the new file then. Thanks.
     
  6. free radical

    free radical New Member

    Dear Valois
    Have you plotted enough comparatives to be confident that it is just smoother, without being power compromised at any point in the power band? If so, congratulations. I am salivating at the prospect of chipping my S3 in the near future, but having gone through three A3Ts in the last few years, I have a few questions:
    1) Dyno-testing the all-wheel drive system cars. How do you manage to get consistent readings for the S3/TT?
    2) Are there model specific standardised graded staged Upsolute chips for eg (1) standard,(2) extensively modified intake and exhaust systems and possibly also (3) additional larger turbo/mods, as with several other chiptuners, or do you have just one basic chip per model which learns these parameters shortly after installation or reset (and if so, is reset possible/assisted off-site by recoding with a VAG com tool)?
    I would be stage 1 at present, but stage 2 at some future point. My previous tuner offered seperate chips for stage 3 and even offered trade ins on the lower designation chips. I am sure many face the same dilemma, so some detail would be appreciated. Thank you in anticipation.
    Regards
    Stuart

     
  7. René

    René Moderator

    Stuart, Andy installed the modified program into a clients car and did some vag-com runs that he has developed to indicate HP output, we are confident that output power will remain the same with this file.
    We do KO4 turbo upgrade chips, the cost of an upgrade is $125.00 for our prior clients who are changing over to the new chip, the dyno that Upsolute uses for development is a 2 wheel design I believe, ALex would have to comment on that.
     
  8. Blackwolf

    Blackwolf Active Member

    Should I then keep the olf file???
     
  9. Alex

    Alex Technical Support Staff Member Administrator

    Yes, we have 'only' a 2 wheel dyno, not usable for quattros (4 wheel drive). We outsource the 4 wheel tests...
    ...alex
    ------------------
    Alex
    technical support
    www.upsolute.com
     
  10. free radical

    free radical New Member

    Thanks Valois and Alex, but I don't think you answered my queries.
    I mean no ofence, but I think you need to confirm and substantiate the improved new files for the surging problem on the AWW cars via some appropriate dyno comparisons before you can assure us that there is no power loss with the fix. It is in your interest to do so. Your strength over the opposition, as far as I am concerned, lies in your refreshing openness / communication.

    I dont need to upgrade to a K04, since I have a S3. I asked whether you used different chips for 1) standard, 2)air intake and exhaust and lastly 3)turbo mods on these and other 1.8T models. Am I to deduce from your reply that there is one chip for 1) and 2) and a second chip for 3)?
    Must I assume that the first chip can be reset and simply relearn the new dynamics of 2), or must it first be tuned to the new parameters and then relearn the dynamics?
    I don't think, at this stage at least, that I want to sit with the lag that a turbo mod would produce, but am I to understand that a stage three equivalent, following mods to the turbo itself, would require a different chip, and if not, would you please clarify your system for me so that I might advance my understanding without raising more questions than answers?
    Would I be able to reset the chip with a VAG com tool locally using your necessary codes, like I did with my MTH chip, since I am 1000+ km away from the SA agent (2000+ km return)?
    Also, what is the point of visiting the agent in my case, if he is unable to dyno my all wheel drive car, and how could the chip be optimised for the quattros in the first instance, let alone fine tuned to any engines mods, if it was not originally developed on a 4-wheel dyno, and there is none available for further development?
    I look forward to more detailed and complete replies, as are, I am sure, enthusiast owners of all quattros and all wheel drives.
    Upsolutely longing to be upsoluted.
    Regards
    Stuart
     
  11. Alex

    Alex Technical Support Staff Member Administrator

    Gaiaresearch. I hope to answer all your questions whith this if not please let me know...
    First of all chiptuning is a quite complex stuff. It's not like turning the turbopressure up and giving a little more injection. The ECU holds the complete data of the engine management. And if I say management, I mean management. Modern cars, like your S3 have a verry complex management.
    This brings me to the dyno. I can understand your thoughts, but I'm sorry to tell you that a dyno is not the 'answer of all the chiptuning questions. Everybody who claims to make development on the dyno only has not verry much experience with chiptuning. I need to say, I would not like to have a chip developed on the dyno only!!!! For sure not! Why, that's quite simple explained. The dyno gives you just a 2 dimensional view of the engine power, but the maps are 3 dimensional! The dyno is read at full thottle from low to high RPM, and shows you only a verry thin part of the cake. If you imagine a cake, you have cutted out about 1/100 from this cake! If the rest of the cake is rotten, you will not eaven taste it! That's my thought about dynos, it's a nice feature to show customers some improvement, and for sure some development help, but it will not lead you to a good solution! The management contains 2 variables to get one result. The 2 variables are normally RPM and throttle position and the result is fe. injection. So, to keep it easy, if it would be a 12x12 map (12 RPM values/12 Throttle positions) you will get 144 results (values)... at the dyno you will se 12 of them :eek: The other 132 !!! /values will not be shown at the dyno! In reality the maps are more complex (let's say 25x25) and the points between are calculated by the ECU dynamically. So you can at a new ECU calculate 2500x2500 = 6,250 000 points where you only see 2500 at the dyno! Just to give you a feeling. So since we are all no track racers, and will not drive full throttle all the time, the development of the 'other' 6,247 500 points is more important than the 2500 values at WOT. But exactly this points can not be seen at the dyno! So to get a reliable and good performing chip, most important is to drive the car, and have some feeling for the car! Fe. the part throttle shudder some TDIs have can not be seen at any dyno! So the overall performance is most important to us, to give the customer all over the 6,250 000 possibilities smooth
    and strong power. Just to give you a feeling again, we talked about one map right now, but a modern 1.8T contains about 85 maps :D So you see only that small part of all these maps at a dyno! I would not buy a chip from a dyno picture at all! An engine dyno is a completely different story, it can give you 3 dimensional power curves that gives you a 'better feeling' about the power, but as you see in Formula One racing, without a lot of test drives you will not win a race :D
    So beside all these technical stuff, tuning will ever stay some kind of finger tip feeling, and a lot of testing. That's why we opened this board, to get feedback from all the 'testers' out there. We will never claim our product as perfect, and are ready to learn every day...
    So to answer your first question, there are different chips for differents models (since the mangagement is improved nearly every month). Also we offer differend chips for different cars. A different chip for an airfilter or exhaust mod is not needed, cause it compliments the 'standard' chip. For different turbos or 'other drastically' mods of course a different management is needed.
     
  12. Tazzman

    Tazzman Member

    Today I updated three AWW with the new file
    all are 2001 all aww and one Golf.
    There are fast, smooth, and extremely better in performace.
    did test runs ,.
    excelleration was excellant, shifting awsome and of caurse the POWER !!!!!!!
    Did vag coms on all
    no problems what so ever
    ( one had to replace DV )
    Im sure theyyll post ther result and happyness soon

    Thanks Alex forthe update..
    Tazz
     
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