k04 kafer proj.

[t0ad99]

Here is a link from VWvortex you can take a look if you would like to see what i have been up to. http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=591988
Anyway lemme give you the run down and the k04 story...
I installed my k04 back this past spring (march/april maybe?) anyway... i was going to use a GIAC chip, but we had a few problems, with it. I didn't have a vagcom at the time so not sure what happend w/ all that.
okay i got a vagcom, and was running a stock chip w/ my k04, a-okay.. no errors nothing...
[at this time i had a k04turbo, forge DV, Custom 2.5" lower IC Pipe, G60flywhl / vr6clutch, turbo inlet pipe, and i think thats it as far as power and drivetrain mods and such]
Once i got the Upsolute k04 file for my 2k beetle, i was stilling pushing 10lbs, w/ no clue why... then i got overwhelemed w/ some other things... (this was like aug when i got the chip)
The past month or so, i checked my Forge DV, and found out it failed a test w/ a pen you can perform on the DV to see if it is working correctly. So they sent me new O-rings, and a piston. I hooked it up, still no good... hmm, so i had a thought, if this DV works, it'll work in my friends car too! so i tried it.. no good.. he doesn't even go past 6lbs.. so we found the problem....
So i got a new DV, from the same place i had the chip installed. and adjustable turbobypass i think its called... what ever the name brand is.. i tried hooking up the chip w/ no washers, all the way up too 5 washers, and after a little while over driving i would go into limp mode and get this error
17963 - Charge Pressure: Maximum Limit Exceeded 35-00 - -
So i thought maybe some thing w/ the boost in the chip is doing this... so i hooked up my boost controller, and set the boost to like .80 bar something like 8-9 lbs? figured, w/ the EBC hooked up bypassing the n75 that would solve this problem so i can atleast drive to in from work and not be in limp mode
when i'm in limp mode, i have zero boost, except when i am below around 2650RPM i'll get about 9lbs or so.. then once it hits that key RPM point, ZERO....
kinda sucks... Do you have any ideas? Suggestions..?? i've heard of this happening because the chip tuner can set a saftey when a certain boost level is achived it will go into limp mode as a precaution. but that doesn't sound like its really the problem, becuase it still happens w/ the EBC, and if i don't go above even a fraction of what the total boost output that the chip can do, and still get that same problem... maybe i'm wrong misunderstood?
i dunno.. but i'm stuck... please help..

-t0ad

 

[t0ad99]

Opps.. i forgot to add that after i hooked up the EBC, i still get the same problem...

nice piece of information.. makes more sence.... now doesn't we'll.. still doesn't make sence.. but you get my point

 

[Alex]

You are right, the ECU (on the newer models) has a protection sheme to prevent the the turbo charger from damage. Once the 'actual boost' is to much different from the 'requested boost' the ECU will go into limp mode disabling the turbo charger. This is no feature from the chip tuners, it's a stock feature preventing the tubo/engine from damage (fe. at a stuck Wastegate). Therefore at these models (who have a charge pressure sensor) this fault situation is normal.
Also there is no limit set for the boost, it's more a complex system, requesting boost, and measuring the actual boost. If there is a difference ---> limp mode
So if you change the boost mechanically it will cause the ECU to think there is a mechanically fault, and disables the turbo. Also there is no way to 'disable' the max boost, since as explained it's a system, containing actual/requested. So you need to raise the requested boost (software-ECU) to get a higher actual boost...
hope this helps...
...alex
[ 05 December 2002: Message edited by: Alex ]

 

[t0ad99]

That clears up alot.
I can create any data logs, with the UPchip in from my vag-com. if there are any data logs, or charts i can create that could help you determine a different software revision for my car, Or maybe you see something i don't..
I would assume we could all speak comunitively w/ the tuner who installed the chip, and let me know what you need. you can contact http://www.unekmotorsport.com and let them know the skinny.
I am very intrested in helping as much as i can.

 

[t0ad99]

Either tonight or this weekend, i should have some datalogs and graphs of Requested/Actual Boost w/ my Upsolute k04 software revision.
any other information you may want, ask now!
tod

 

[Alex]

Thank you for your support, datalogs of the actual/requested would be fine to find a suitable solution for your problem...
thanks alex

 

[t0ad99]

I think i may have found an issue, currently i'm waiting on a new N75 from ECS we'll see if that corrects my problem. It looks like the Actual boost isn't spooling fast enough to meet w/ the requested boost. I'll keep you all informed whether or not this works or not...

 

[t0ad99]

This is SOOOO annoying.. okay i get the new ECS N75 and put it in... after driving for a little bit i loose boost again, I go home, clear the code (max boost exeeded) so i say, log time!
i do logs on it, and it never happens!
I do how ever get a MAF signal to high error. I try over and over to get my max boost exeeded to pop up on the Logs.. it doesn't.. So i unplug the vagcom, and start driving again, and boom, i get my max boost exeeded... WTF?! sooo anoying...
here are some readouts for 3rd gear at WOT
Group A: '115 Group B: '119 Group C: '003
RPM Engine Load requested boost Actual Boost RPM air intake temp Boost Dut Cycl Actual Boost rpm Air mass in Throt plate Angle Ignit Angle
TIME mbar mbar TIME 0-100% TIME
STAMP /min % mbar mbar STAMP /min °C % mbar STAMP /min g/s % °
39.18 2600 76.7 2090 1070 38.37 1440 90 0 1010 38.78 1840 24.14 28.6 12.8
40.38 3080 153.4 2470 1950 39.58 2760 89 82.4 1280 39.98 2880 75.28 100 10.5
41.57 3720 188.7 2280 2490 40.77 3280 88 80.4 2320 41.17 3520 134.28 100 3.8
42.77 4280 168.4 2170 2250 41.97 3920 88 69.4 2480 42.37 4080 130.39 46.7 -3.8
43.97 4720 166.2 2050 2020 43.17 4400 88 62.7 2170 43.57 4560 132.06 48.6 2.3
45.17 5160 142.9 1920 1920 44.37 4880 87 63.1 2000 44.78 5040 138.97 100 7.5
46.38 5560 137.6 1850 1850 45.57 5320 87 63.5 1900 45.97 5440 146.72 100 11.3
47.57 4920 10.5 990 1340 46.77 5640 87 62.7 1830 47.18 5680 82 22.4 17.3

 

[t0ad99]

Okay for all my Runs in CSV format, cuz i just noticed that that copy and paste didn't look as good as i thouhgt it would
www.t0ad.co.uk/nbdev/
I'm going to try again later too see if i can get that max boost exeeded to come back up.... I remeber last time i tried to duplicate the max boost exeeded it just wouldn't want to do while the vagcom was in, i would run the car hard over and over, but no codes... but i was able to get it once in some old logs.... but it seems so intermitent when the vagcom is in! blah.. its prob just coincidence dunno
blah!
this sucks.. i just want it to WORK!

 

[t0ad99]

http://www.t0ad.co.uk/nbdev/upchip_run6.htm
I tried one last time, and BOOM as soon as i leave my developement, i get Charge PRessure max exeeded...
so.. whats the deal? Got any ideas Upguys..

 

[t0ad99]

I belive that it stopped giving me boost at Time stamp: 61.55 and you can see where Requested boost just falls the the floor.. even though i was at 100% WOT...
okay, i think thats all the info i can give now, let me know whatcha find.

 

[Alex]

This log is some kind of confusing. I mean, you are right, at time stamp 63 the load fell down to 12 from 120..? Have you fully released the throttle at this time? Best datalog would always be to drive in a high gear (let's say 4th gear) from 2000 RPM up to redline with full throttle, to get a continious log. Anyway, it seems that the turbo is reacting to slow, that is some kind of normal, since it's larger and therefore also slower. However at 62sec you have actual 1.5 bar and requested only 0.5 bar, that can of course cause the oberboost code. I do not understand why your turbo is so much behind the request, at 63 you have raising RPM, and then suddenly falling RPM. I guess you have released the throttle. However, if you have the time and could to a log with 4th gear from 2000 RPM up to let's say 6000 with full throttle, I would really appreciate this.
thanks for your support
alex

 

[t0ad99]

Sure No problem.
Yeah, once the boost pressure had dropped, i let off the gas a second or so later.. so that does make it some what confusing... i was more so excited the fact that i got it to break w/ the vagcom on there. I have a hard time making it break when i'm running logs, otherwise it'll do it all the time for me
When i get home, i'll try to get it to replicate the problem @ 4th gear or 3rd. I really don't have too much of a choice to when it will actually break, but i'll do my best and tell the car to break then
One question though, when i loose boost completely like you see here above 3k RPMs i can't really push it to 6k RPM, really 4k would be pushing it. Trying to push the RPM's up w/ no boost, i would need a few miles just to get it to go up 500 RPMs... its got NO power when i go into charge pressure exeeded max. But i'll push it as far as i can, so you can see in the log what its doing...
any other ideas would be cool...
OH yeah.. one thing i did notice is.. after running around (like logs 1-5) it may work okay, but once i shut the car off for a little while, and start it back up it'll break.. (like you see in my final log trying to leave my developement (thats 2nd gear that it breaks)) Hopefully i can replicate the problem when i get home...
one thing i don't understand it why sometimes the acutall and requested will follow pretty closely, as you see here.. http://www.t0ad.co.uk/nbdev/upchip_ecsn75_run3_excel_chart.xls thats a 3rd gear WOT and 4th... but doesn't throw the max boost exeeded code...

 

[t0ad99]

Forgot to mention that Run3 xls file, i did get the MAF signal to high error when exactly it happened on run3, i don't remeber.. but i'm sure you can see in the logs.... I also got the MAF error on these logs too
http://www.t0ad.co.uk/nbdev/upchip_ecs_n75.CSV http://www.t0ad.co.uk/nbdev/run_5.CSV
best i can help

 

[Alex]

This logs look pretty good, the requested is peaking up to 1.5 bar, which is quite a lot. It really looks like wastegate needs to be adjusted, since the actual is always overboosting the requested. I guess it's on the adjustable turbobypass, are the logs done with that device?

 

[t0ad99]

I tried for like a half hour or so, trying to get it to brake on the vagcom.. but no luck.. So i thought this morning hell i'll drive it to work! not boosting it quite as hard as last night, but it was fine for like 20 miles.. then boom limp.. (it only took a 10 miles or so before i got the MAF error)
do i have logs on the adj. turbobypass?
Could you be more specific?
i'm not sure exactly what you are asking becuase i thought the wastegate was controlled by the N75 (which i just replaced w/ the ECS one..) and the turbobypass being the DV which recycles boostpressure when the throttle position is decreased considerabley when under load. right??
need more help

 

[t0ad99]

once i get outta here, i'm going to hook up the vag, and run another log on my way home. Unfortuantely i can't do any WOT runs in 3rd or 4th.. its tempermental, more than likely it won't do it.. it does it when you least expect it.. and its rainging out... so you'll see a nice DCMetro traffic run watch all that stop and go shiznat
anyway, hopefully, this will be a little better log than the last time it broke on me.. cross your fingers... and yes all these runs are w/ the ECS N75... it seems to be holding out a little longer than my stock one as far as throwing this code.. but then again i could just be imagining it...

 

[t0ad99]

okay now i'm truely baffled...
i checked out that adj. turbo XS valve, and it turns out, that i had it setup wrong. That it isn't insatlled as a standard boch one is. (Where the vacum line points the the right instead of the top) After doing this now i run about 10-11lbs..... i tried all the way up to 6washers.... no boost...
Now why is it when i put it on the 'incorrect' way i get boost and get an error.. (i thought the error was coming because i had it installed 'incorrectly') but when i put it on 'correctly' i don't get past 10-11lbs at all... ?? make sence?
no good

 

[t0ad99]

Gonna show the tunershop the DV this weekend, just as confused as me..
Keep ya' informed and updated !!

 

[Alex]

Any news so far?