I'm no happy camper
- Ersteller des Themas Ganchi
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Well, I'm chipped. I can definately feel the difference, but the two dynos I've done seem to be wrong.
The chip is more powerful, but I am not getting clean runs on the dyno. Both dyno guys say that it seems to be surging, not pulling cleanly.
My DV is only 5000kms old, so I am lost here.
Stock I get 79.6kw and chipped I get 87.6kw at 5500rpm at the wheels.
On the road, the car feels fine, no surging or 'missing'.
I observed the dyno and I can see what the guys are finding a difficulty with. You can feel the car surge. But I have no idea why???
Chris's service is great. I am happy thusfar, its just bugging me as to why the dyno runs are not progressing smoothly.
Could the DV be faulty? Maybe it can handle stock boost, but not chipped boost. It may be leaking, while the ECU tries to compensate by increasing boost?
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1999 GTi 1.8T
[This message has been edited by Ganchi (edited 03-19-2001).]
The chip is more powerful, but I am not getting clean runs on the dyno. Both dyno guys say that it seems to be surging, not pulling cleanly.
My DV is only 5000kms old, so I am lost here.
Stock I get 79.6kw and chipped I get 87.6kw at 5500rpm at the wheels.
On the road, the car feels fine, no surging or 'missing'.
I observed the dyno and I can see what the guys are finding a difficulty with. You can feel the car surge. But I have no idea why???
Chris's service is great. I am happy thusfar, its just bugging me as to why the dyno runs are not progressing smoothly.
Could the DV be faulty? Maybe it can handle stock boost, but not chipped boost. It may be leaking, while the ECU tries to compensate by increasing boost?
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1999 GTi 1.8T
[This message has been edited by Ganchi (edited 03-19-2001).]
I guess it's the diverter valve. The stock diverter valve is of plastic, and sometimes if it works fine with the stock chip, it leaks already with the Upsolute solution. We recommend aftermarked diverter valves which are made out of iron. But if you are happy with the power it does not nessisarily need to be changed. After some weeks, when you are used to your new power you can change it and will get a stronger feeling again 
We see the aftermarked diverter valve more as an recommended option...
...alex
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Alex
technical support
www.upsolute.com
We see the aftermarked diverter valve more as an recommended option...
...alex
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Alex
technical support
www.upsolute.com
Upsolute S.A
Hero Member
Ganchi,
Here's my explanation -
While the car is on the road in third gear, it will rev cleanly to the redline. While revving it's way up through the rev range, the turbo is boosting a certain amount of PSI/BAR at full throttle depending on the engine load. Remember this is on a flat road.
Now when you drive on an incline, you put more load on the engine, which in turn produces a higher volume of air through the exhaust ports into the Turbo. The Turbo now boosts slightly more. This slightly extra boost has an effect on the diverter valve aswell. Keep this in mind for a few seconds.
Now when your car is run on the Dyno (load type dyno - not inertia) the engine is taken to 5500RPM in third gear. Full throttle is then applied and the Dyno rollers are slowed down via a braking device to prevent the car from revving any further while at full throttle in order to plot a power figure.
This is simulating a road incline of about 45 degrees....Geographically impossible - unless you are trying to hike up a mountain
When this occurs, the engine is obviously working harder than normal and once again so does the turbo and produces slightly more boost, than the example on the road because of the extra load. It seems that this is where the diverter valve reaches it's limit and starts to surge as it cannot divert/flow the CFM of air passing through it's diaphram/piston assembly.
While an engine is surging like this on a dyno - it will be impossible for the dyno to plot an accurate measurement because the power figure keeps fluctuating up and down.
Instead now, it plots a power measurement as close to the most stable figure as possible. This I believe was the lowest point in the power cycle the the surging was lowering to. (imagine a sine wave with the lowest point being equal to the engines lowest surging power point) - I hope this is sort of clear.
What I suggest is to replace your stock DV with an aftermarket version made of billet Alluminium. This should sort out the problem of the surging and the Dynamometer should be able to plot a stable and accurate power and torque curve.
I hope this helps.
Upsolute S.A
Here's my explanation -
While the car is on the road in third gear, it will rev cleanly to the redline. While revving it's way up through the rev range, the turbo is boosting a certain amount of PSI/BAR at full throttle depending on the engine load. Remember this is on a flat road.
Now when you drive on an incline, you put more load on the engine, which in turn produces a higher volume of air through the exhaust ports into the Turbo. The Turbo now boosts slightly more. This slightly extra boost has an effect on the diverter valve aswell. Keep this in mind for a few seconds.
Now when your car is run on the Dyno (load type dyno - not inertia) the engine is taken to 5500RPM in third gear. Full throttle is then applied and the Dyno rollers are slowed down via a braking device to prevent the car from revving any further while at full throttle in order to plot a power figure.
This is simulating a road incline of about 45 degrees....Geographically impossible - unless you are trying to hike up a mountain
When this occurs, the engine is obviously working harder than normal and once again so does the turbo and produces slightly more boost, than the example on the road because of the extra load. It seems that this is where the diverter valve reaches it's limit and starts to surge as it cannot divert/flow the CFM of air passing through it's diaphram/piston assembly.
While an engine is surging like this on a dyno - it will be impossible for the dyno to plot an accurate measurement because the power figure keeps fluctuating up and down.
Instead now, it plots a power measurement as close to the most stable figure as possible. This I believe was the lowest point in the power cycle the the surging was lowering to. (imagine a sine wave with the lowest point being equal to the engines lowest surging power point) - I hope this is sort of clear.
What I suggest is to replace your stock DV with an aftermarket version made of billet Alluminium. This should sort out the problem of the surging and the Dynamometer should be able to plot a stable and accurate power and torque curve.
I hope this helps.
Upsolute S.A
Well, bad news. At first I only had a problem doing two dyno runs. The car would surge too much and the dyno could not progress smoothly. Now, after a week of driving, I can feel the problem on the road. With a full tank and 4 passengers under WOT the surging is definately there. I did not budget for a new DV, so for now, I'm going back to stock.
Just a theory, could this be detonation? I don't know what detonation is suppossed to feel like or sound like, but I do know its NOT good.
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1999 GTi 1.8T
[This message has been edited by Ganchi (edited 22 March 2001).]
Just a theory, could this be detonation? I don't know what detonation is suppossed to feel like or sound like, but I do know its NOT good.
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1999 GTi 1.8T
[This message has been edited by Ganchi (edited 22 March 2001).]
Upsolute S.A
Hero Member
Ganchi,
This is definitely the DV playing up. To answer your question regarding detonation - no this is not detonation at all, you would hear detonation, but you would not feel anything when the engine detonates.
Upsolute S.A
This is definitely the DV playing up. To answer your question regarding detonation - no this is not detonation at all, you would hear detonation, but you would not feel anything when the engine detonates.
Upsolute S.A
1.8T Passat
New Member
Hi Ganchi,
Sorry to hear about your problems - In the Passat I have definately no problems but then I have already upgraded to a Forge diverter valve. If I was you I would insert my standard chip and go back to the agents to see if they will not replace the faulty diverter valve under guarantee. If you don't come right you can mail me as my original DV is still somehere in my garage.
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Dave
'00 Indigo Passat 1.8T
Sorry to hear about your problems - In the Passat I have definately no problems but then I have already upgraded to a Forge diverter valve. If I was you I would insert my standard chip and go back to the agents to see if they will not replace the faulty diverter valve under guarantee. If you don't come right you can mail me as my original DV is still somehere in my garage.
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Dave
'00 Indigo Passat 1.8T
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